19pts............misleading?

[joffaboy]

C'Mon guys, get some perspective.

Even if we won it would have meant nothing.

Collingwood and probably Geelong would have changed their training schedules and have been doing some heavy loading over the past few weeks to ripen for the finals.

They can afford to do so, they have one and two wrapped up. This means their performances would be below par (as can be seen from both of their performances on the weekend). Both were heavy legged and did enough to win.

OTOH we have to go hard each and every game to the end of the season just to make the finals.

This is why a team will NEVER win the flag from the bottom four. They get no time to refresh, then they have to play progressively harder teams each and every week until they reach No's 1 and 2.

Collingwood never looked like losing on Friday night, did enough to see off a team not quite at their level, and look forward to rounfd 24 and then the finals.

I see Saints 2011 about the same level as they were in 2008 when we were a 5-10 goal team behind Geelong and Hawthorn.

We just aren't up to it, and I'm afraid that Lyon might have fired all of his bullets when it comes to game plans.

We bridged the gap in 09 with his forward press gameplan. Collingwood, with better players have refined that gameplan and now are streets ahead of us.

What can Lyon do with our current MOR list to give us a competitive edge re gameplan? Well I dont know.

But to me 19 points was indeed misleading. My only bright spot was that our team had a crack and kept coming up until the last second.

The team might not be up to it, but it plays out every game and they give their best, which is all we can ask for as supporters

[Beno88]

If you think the result on Friday night was misleading, take these factors into consideration.

Collingwood's 14.5.89 was their second lowest score of 2011. Only Geelong held them to less.

Collingwood's 19 scoring shots was their second least in 2011. Only Geelong has held them to less.

Collingwood were beaten on the inside 50 count for only the third time in 2011.

For only the second time in 2011 Collingwood had more scoring shots against than for.

Only two sides (Geelong & Sydney) have got closer to Collingwood than we did.

Defensively St.Kilda's effort was outstanding. But offensively our deficiencies cost us dearly.

[SinCitySaint]

C'Mon guys, get some perspective.

Even if we won it would have meant nothing.

Collingwood and probably Geelong would have changed their training schedules and have been doing some heavy loading over the past few weeks to ripen for the finals.

They can afford to do so, they have one and two wrapped up. This means their performances would be below par (as can be seen from both of their performances on the weekend). Both were heavy legged and did enough to win.

OTOH we have to go hard each and every game to the end of the season just to make the finals.

This is why a team will NEVER win the flag from the bottom four. They get no time to refresh, then they have to play progressively harder teams each and every week until they reach No's 1 and 2.

Collingwood never looked like losing on Friday night, did enough to see off a team not quite at their level, and look forward to rounfd 24 and then the finals.

I see Saints 2011 about the same level as they were in 2008 when we were a 5-10 goal team behind Geelong and Hawthorn.

We just aren't up to it, and I'm afraid that Lyon might have fired all of his bullets when it comes to game plans.

We bridged the gap in 09 with his forward press gameplan. Collingwood, with better players have refined that gameplan and now are streets ahead of us.

What can Lyon do with our current MOR list to give us a competitive edge re gameplan? Well I dont know.

But to me 19 points was indeed misleading. My only bright spot was that our team had a crack and kept coming up until the last second.

The team might not be up to it, but it plays out every game and they give their best, which is all we can ask for as supporters

I agree 100% with this.
The other thing to note is that we went in with a side selected and structured to minimize damage. The dropping of Gamble to overload the defense was a negative selection designed to produce an honorable loss, it was never designed to increase our chances to win. Ross is acutely aware of where we are at even if a number of supporters in this thread are happy to wear rose-coloured glasses.
At no stage did I think we were a chance to win as it always looked to me that if we got close Collingwood could shift up a gear.

The only part of the game that left me really miffed was Ross allowing Leon to run free all game. Davis is the sort of player that if you let him can rip you a new one because his disposal is so good. However, he is also one of the easiest players in the game to completely nullify with a hard tag. You are better off letting Swan get 40 possessions than letting Davis get 30, as those 30 will be a lot more damaging.

[bozza1980]

The filth were as ripe for plucking as they will get this year


coming off two six day breaks with the last one being in heavy conditions interstate

at the dome, under lights at night, usually when we perform at our best

not the filths ideal venue

in the past few years the sides who have dominated the competition have dropped late home and away games before the finals


everything was set up for us, an upset was definitely on


AND we still couldn't nail them

of course they were tired, they had two six day breaks before this one


come September at the MCG if we happen to play them we will be lucky to get within 8 goals


If anyone thinks we are a sneaky chance this year then they are delusional and living in cloud cuckoo land

Yes, there were a number of factors in our favour that meant that an upset win for us was well on the cards.

Which makes the fact we didn't win a little more galling than it might otherwise have been.

Maybe it's my rose coloured glasses but I still think that we will be better for it and are still capable of an upset if a crack at the pies in September presents itself.

That said, we have a few hurdles to clear before that even becomes something for us to worry about.

[Dr Spaceman]

At best we’re probably only capable of beating Collingwood once 2011 and I for one am glad we haven't wasted that on a Home & Away game.

[InkerSaint]

Either the Pies outclassed us because they could kick straight and we couldn't, or they got out of jail because they could kick straight and we couldn't.

Ability or confidence, is what the argument comes down to.

The midfield battle was breakeven, perhaps because they were tired after a flight and six day break, perhaps because they are tapering for finals. Or perhaps the gap has been closed on that front.

Personally, I'm open to all possibilities. If you're ready to join the horde in writing the Saints off, best of luck to you.

[dragit]

If you're ready to join the horde in writing the Saints off, best of luck to you.

Exactly…

The Pies were the best side all of last year, yet we were dead level at the end of the GF.

If we'd played another forward and had a running player as the sub we might have been closer again on friday, Ross was probably expecting the inside 50's to uneven again (nearly double last time) hence so many backmen, with another forward we might have converted a few more inside 50 opportunities…

But don't worry about any of that, let's all give up now and enjoy the Cats-Pies GF like everyone wanted last year.

[dragit]

This is why a team will NEVER win the flag from the bottom four. They get no time to refresh, then they have to play progressively harder teams each and every week until they reach No's 1 and 2.

This is a strange thing to say, as it has happened and it wasn't that long ago - 98.
It will happen again.
They say 3rd & 4th is really important, but in some ways whats the difference if you get smashed by the best 2 sides in the first week of the finals, you still have to play the next week. The big advantage only comes if you get to host an interstate side.

[dcstkfc]

This is why a team will NEVER win the flag from the bottom four. They get no time to refresh, then they have to play progressively harder teams each and every week until they reach No's 1 and 2.

This is a strange thing to say, as it has happened and it wasn't that long ago - 98.
It will happen again.
They say 3rd & 4th is really important, but in some ways whats the difference if you get smashed by the best 2 sides in the first week of the finals, you still have to play the next week. The big advantage only comes if you get to host an interstate side.

Different system back then

[Leo.J]

Sydney went the long way home in 2005.

[Leo.J]

So did WC in 2006.

[dragit]

This is why a team will NEVER win the flag from the bottom four. They get no time to refresh, then they have to play progressively harder teams each and every week until they reach No's 1 and 2.

This is a strange thing to say, as it has happened and it wasn't that long ago - 98.
It will happen again.
They say 3rd & 4th is really important, but in some ways whats the difference if you get smashed by the best 2 sides in the first week of the finals, you still have to play the next week. The big advantage only comes if you get to host an interstate side.

Different system back then

Sure, but the fact is, even after losing in the first week of the finals a team that finished 5th then went on to beat the 3rd, 2nd and 1st team in the GF.
So it is pretty relevant.

[Leo.J]

The last 2 clubs to have lost 2 games or less have lost the flag also.

[dragit]

In fact Adelaide played all 4 sides above it in the finals that year, so arguably even harder in terms of playing progressively better sides each week?
(granted they were very fortunate to lose week 1 and still go on from 5th)

[joffaboy]

In fact Adelaide played all 4 sides above it in the finals that year, so arguably even harder in terms of playing progressively better sides each week?
(granted they were very fortunate to lose week 1 and still go on from 5th)

Totally different system of finals.

Since the inception of the current system not one team from outside the four has won the flag.

[dragit]

In fact Adelaide played all 4 sides above it in the finals that year, so arguably even harder in terms of playing progressively better sides each week?
(granted they were very fortunate to lose week 1 and still go on from 5th)

Totally different system of finals.

Since the inception of the current system not one team from outside the four has won the flag.

Yes but as I mentioned, the 5th side beat 3rd, 2nd and 1st,
You don't think that is relevant?

[dragit]

They get no time to refresh, then they have to play progressively harder teams each and every week until they reach No's 1 and 2.

This is exactly what Adelaide had to do… 4th, 3rd, 2nd & then 1st.
I'm not saying it will be common, the top 4 sides are there for a reason, but it will happen again.
No it has happened since this finals system was put in place, but it's only 10 years old, it will of course be a rare occurrence…

[stevie]

In fact Adelaide played all 4 sides above it in the finals that year, so arguably even harder in terms of playing progressively better sides each week?
(granted they were very fortunate to lose week 1 and still go on from 5th)

Totally different system of finals.

Since the inception of the current system not one team from outside the four has won the flag.

Yes but as I mentioned, the 5th side beat 3rd, 2nd and 1st,
You don't think that is relevant?

Yeah it is. Though you could argue that the quality of the teams back then wasnt as high as now. The Crows of 98(and 97) wouldnt beat filth or cats of now, nor us from 09.
And when Shytney and WC won the flag after losing the first final, the teams they beat were lower in quality as well.
I know that means jack at the time but I feel these facts are overlooked sometimes, in all sports.

i mean, our 97 team was pretty good but would be pounded by our 09 side!

[Leo.J]

In fact Adelaide played all 4 sides above it in the finals that year, so arguably even harder in terms of playing progressively better sides each week?
(granted they were very fortunate to lose week 1 and still go on from 5th)

Totally different system of finals.

Since the inception of the current system not one team from outside the four has won the flag.

While not being outside the top4 both Sydney and WC in 05 and 06 both played 4 finals and won the flag.

Which is what you'd have to do to win it from outside the top 4.

[dragit]

In fact Adelaide played all 4 sides above it in the finals that year, so arguably even harder in terms of playing progressively better sides each week?
(granted they were very fortunate to lose week 1 and still go on from 5th)

Totally different system of finals.

Since the inception of the current system not one team from outside the four has won the flag.

Yes but as I mentioned, the 5th side beat 3rd, 2nd and 1st,
You don't think that is relevant?

Yeah it is. Though you could argue that the quality of the teams back then wasnt as high as now. The Crows of 98(and 97) wouldnt beat filth or cats of now, nor us from 09.
And when Shytney and WC won the flag after losing the first final, the teams they beat were lower in quality as well.
I know that means jack at the time but I feel these facts are overlooked sometimes, in all sports.

i mean, our 97 team was pretty good but would be pounded by our 09 side!

Probably no relevance at all, our 66 premiership team would probably be spanked by Port.

[stevie]

In fact Adelaide played all 4 sides above it in the finals that year, so arguably even harder in terms of playing progressively better sides each week?
(granted they were very fortunate to lose week 1 and still go on from 5th)

Totally different system of finals.

Since the inception of the current system not one team from outside the four has won the flag.

Yes but as I mentioned, the 5th side beat 3rd, 2nd and 1st,
You don't think that is relevant?

Yeah it is. Though you could argue that the quality of the teams back then wasnt as high as now. The Crows of 98(and 97) wouldnt beat filth or cats of now, nor us from 09.
And when Shytney and WC won the flag after losing the first final, the teams they beat were lower in quality as well.
I know that means jack at the time but I feel these facts are overlooked sometimes, in all sports.

i mean, our 97 team was pretty good but would be pounded by our 09 side!

Probably no relevance at all, our 66 premiership team would probably be spanked by Port.

LOL! I reckon any of our teams from early 80's would beat Port

[matrix]

plugger wouldve kicked 48 goals against the power last week

[Dr Spaceman]

plugger wouldve kicked 48 goals against the power last week

plugger66 wouldve kicked 48 goals against the power last week

[matrix]

lol

me and you couldve kicked a dozen each i reckon Dr
shesh they look bad
real bad

crows peeps at work are loving it

[stevie]

plugger wouldve kicked 48 goals against the power last week

Yep, coming on as the sub at 3 qtr time...