List criticisms

[Saint2]

Brutality may not be possible...
Out of contract players are:
Daniel McKenzie (Restricted Free Agent)
Hunter Clark
Jack Bytel
Jack Peris
Jade Gresham (Restricted Free Agent)
Jimmy Webster (Unrestricted Free Agent)
Leo Connolly
Liam Stocker
Mason Wood
Nicholas Coffield
Oscar Adams
Ryan Byrnes
Tom Campbell
Tom Highmore
Zak Jones

You'd have to think that McKenzie, Clark, Peris, Webster, Stocker, Wood, Coffield, Byrnes, Peris, and Jones are re-signed.
Gresham is a curious one. He's one of the few players that are effective at centre clearances. It will be up to him whether he goes or stays. I doubt we'd push him out the door.

Connolly, Adams, Campbell, and Highmore would be nervous.

All the other players are contracted. So, unless a trade offer comes that includes taking on their remaining contract, I suspect we will be hanging on to them.

Just mild brutality- no need to go nuts.

[Killa]

And just to add, given the progress to mid field roles for the likes of Owens and Phillipou, those at risk to me would include Ross (squeezed out) Campbell (on the progress of Heath), McKenzie (who may call time), Hayes and Bytel on the basis of future opportunity) then Highmore (opportunity and competition), Cordy (opportunity with the development of Adams and Van Es) and Connolly (who has been unable to play at AFL level over the past 2 Seasons)

So that is 8

And, again, given 8 de-listed who do you replace then with?

Some will survive on that basis

The only player who may have some currency at the Trade Table is Ross - but maybe not

[Vortex]

And just to add, given the progress to mid field roles for the likes of Owens and Phillipou, those at risk to me would include Ross (squeezed out) Campbell (on the progress of Heath), McKenzie (who may call time), Hayes and Bytel on the basis of future opportunity) then Highmore (opportunity and competition), Cordy (opportunity with the development of Adams and Van Es) and Connolly (who has been unable to play at AFL level over the past 2 Seasons)

So that is 8

And, again, given 8 de-listed who do you replace then with?

Some will survive on that basis

The only player who may have some currency at the Trade Table is Ross - but maybe not

Agree, some will survive on the basis of limited access to a thin talent pool.

[Scollop]

It's common knowledge that Jack Hayes is contracted until the end of 2024

Zaine Cordy came to us on a multi year deal. It was reported as a 3 year deal, so he's also contracted until at least the end of 2024

[shanegrambeau]

Love Highi and Butts, however, did anyone catch glimpses of the small forwards on display last night?

Charlie Cameron & Kysaiah Pickett !!!

The skills! They are just on another level, aren’t they.

We nearly got Melbourne last week, even with a third of our team well beaten and not even looking like they should be on the park.

Then we got clobbered by Brisbane down here.

Long way to go.

[Scollop]

Both Charlie Cameron & Kysaiah Pickett win contested footy against most of their opponents. They are good in the air and good at ground level.

What am I talking about... they're beyond good.
They're electric!!

You can't afford to give them an inch and it takes a special player to be able to restrict them. Geary used to do it and now, we have Jimmy Webster. He does an amazing job on the best small forwards in the game

[Vortex]

Anyone thinking the offer of a multiple year deal for Byrnes is a good idea?

[Scollop]

Anyone thinking the offer of a multiple year deal for Byrnes is a good idea?

How did you rate his second half last week?

The sample size should be factored in. I think he's got upside and has strengths.

Did you think he was to blame for our loss today?

[Vortex]

Anyone thinking the offer of a multiple year deal for Byrnes is a good idea?

How did you rate his second half last week?

The sample size should be factored in. I think he's got upside and has strengths.

Did you think he was to blame for our loss today?

I think he's a really average footballer and not worth a multi year deal, at best should be given another year. What's his upside and why haven't we seen it yet. has one trick, has endurance.

[Killa]

The fragility of our “Older” demographic was on display today

As I have mentioned, we just do not have an older demographic to stand up and lead, to set the example and to lift the side

Hill (curtailed?) and Crouch were honest

And that was it

The next rung down and the summary is repeated

Steele, Sinclair, Marshall et al did not perform with the GCS’s mids receiving silver service from their ruck domination

Of our youth Wanganeen-Milera and Windhager were our leaders assisted by Sharman Owens was active, Peris was not disgraced and Phillipou and Caminiti gave effort

You could put that our more senior players should offer apology to our kids

Gresham I rate because of his evasiveness - it is not my view that he has leg speed. He can dodge and weave which attributes make him dangerous around goal whilst offering periodic assistance to the midfield

The other observation was Wilkie on King

Emphasising that we require support for King, Howard and Marshall

They did a job on us in the contests on the back of ruck domination and first use, did us for structure exposing our lack of height and did us for pace on the ball because they got it first

Too many of our older, established and potential players were found out, putting responsibility on our kids

So the wrong way around

[Vortex]

Interesting listening to the noise growing around the North seeking draft concessions.

Just another degree of difficulty for us getting access to draft talent higher up the order.

We should tank this week.

[desertsaint]

give north a 10 goal win and blow their concession claims out of the water!

[The Fireman]

give north a 10 goal win and blow their concession claims out of the water!

Thinking outside the square. Like it

[The Fireman]

Interesting listening to the noise growing around the North seeking draft concessions.

Just another degree of difficulty for us getting access to draft talent higher up the order.

We should tank this week.

We haven’t been ?

[Vortex]

Interesting listening to the noise growing around the North seeking draft concessions.

Just another degree of difficulty for us getting access to draft talent higher up the order.

We should tank this week.

We haven’t been ?

Ross calls it exploration.

[The Fireman]

Interesting listening to the noise growing around the North seeking draft concessions.

Just another degree of difficulty for us getting access to draft talent higher up the order.

We should tank this week.

We haven’t been ?

Ross calls it exploration.

Maybe Ross has a chat bot

[Teflon]

Interesting listening to the noise growing around the North seeking draft concessions.

Just another degree of difficulty for us getting access to draft talent higher up the order.

We should tank this week.

We haven’t been ?

Ross calls it exploration.

I Thi k he meant “exploitation” year
I’m ok with that

[Teflon]

The fragility of our “Older” demographic was on display today

As I have mentioned, we just do not have an older demographic to stand up and lead, to set the example and to lift the side

Hill (curtailed?) and Crouch were honest

And that was it

The next rung down and the summary is repeated

Steele, Sinclair, Marshall et al did not perform with the GCS’s mids receiving silver service from their ruck domination

Of our youth Wanganeen-Milera and Windhager were our leaders assisted by Sharman Owens was active, Peris was not disgraced and Phillipou and Caminiti gave effort

You could put that our more senior players should offer apology to our kids

Gresham I rate because of his evasiveness - it is not my view that he has leg speed. He can dodge and weave which attributes make him dangerous around goal whilst offering periodic assistance to the midfield

The other observation was Wilkie on King

Emphasising that we require support for King, Howard and Marshall

They did a job on us in the contests on the back of ruck domination and first use, did us for structure exposing our lack of height and did us for pace on the ball because they got it first

Too many of our older, established and potential players were found out, putting responsibility on our kids

So the wrong way around

That second last sentence is key Killa - good analysis
I posted this elsewhere (it’s from Stav BF who gets club inside mail time to time). Pav asked me to share it more so here it is but I think it aligns with your thinking.

*****

We will get younger and shed those that have been here across the Richo and Ratten eras.

The new core is Pou Nas King Windy Owens Higgins - club thinks they will all be stars

Caminiti Stocker Sharman Byrnes all look like keepers.

They love the look of Keeler Van Es Hotton.

It’s the group of Howard Membrey Hill Steele Ross Billings Jones Marshall Battle Butler Clark Coffield Gresham Dmac Paton & Webster that is the issue.

Huge question on work ethic. Durability. Ability to perform consistently. Attention to preparation.

Wilkie Sinclair Wood - who meet the expectations of the boss. Arguably why all 3 are having career years.

Then there is a group that is just not rated. Predominantly kids.

Now you can’t bin them all. Or gut your experienced list. But the clubs been planning for a fair bit of movement.

So let’s see.

I imagine we will have 2 first round picks in contention for round 1 next year - Ross really happy to just bring kids through.

Hence why I said a few weeks ago, people who think he was brought in as a bloke who elevates an experienced list is wrong.

He was brought in to sort out who is an AFL footballer who can play and be apart of a finals side.

[TheGreatZacsby]

Anyone thinking the offer of a multiple year deal for Byrnes is a good idea?

I’m in two minds. I personally don’t rate him. He has flashes of brilliance and then does something so moronic and undoes everything he builds for. His two way running is great. I reckon play hard to get and offer him a 1-2 year deal and if he gets shitty, there’s the door.

[TheGreatZacsby]

The fragility of our “Older” demographic was on display today

As I have mentioned, we just do not have an older demographic to stand up and lead, to set the example and to lift the side

Hill (curtailed?) and Crouch were honest

And that was it

The next rung down and the summary is repeated

Steele, Sinclair, Marshall et al did not perform with the GCS’s mids receiving silver service from their ruck domination

Of our youth Wanganeen-Milera and Windhager were our leaders assisted by Sharman Owens was active, Peris was not disgraced and Phillipou and Caminiti gave effort

You could put that our more senior players should offer apology to our kids

Gresham I rate because of his evasiveness - it is not my view that he has leg speed. He can dodge and weave which attributes make him dangerous around goal whilst offering periodic assistance to the midfield

The other observation was Wilkie on King

Emphasising that we require support for King, Howard and Marshall

They did a job on us in the contests on the back of ruck domination and first use, did us for structure exposing our lack of height and did us for pace on the ball because they got it first

Too many of our older, established and potential players were found out, putting responsibility on our kids

So the wrong way around

That second last sentence is key Killa - good analysis
I posted this elsewhere (it’s from Stav BF who gets club inside mail time to time). Pav asked me to share it more so here it is but I think it aligns with your thinking.

*****

We will get younger and shed those that have been here across the Richo and Ratten eras.

The new core is Pou Nas King Windy Owens Higgins - club thinks they will all be stars

Caminiti Stocker Sharman Byrnes all look like keepers.

They love the look of Keeler Van Es Hotton.

It’s the group of Howard Membrey Hill Steele Ross Billings Jones Marshall Battle Butler Clark Coffield Gresham Dmac Paton & Webster that is the issue.

Huge question on work ethic. Durability. Ability to perform consistently. Attention to preparation.

Wilkie Sinclair Wood - who meet the expectations of the boss. Arguably why all 3 are having career years.

Then there is a group that is just not rated. Predominantly kids.

Now you can’t bin them all. Or gut your experienced list. But the clubs been planning for a fair bit of movement.

So let’s see.

I imagine we will have 2 first round picks in contention for round 1 next year - Ross really happy to just bring kids through.

Hence why I said a few weeks ago, people who think he was brought in as a bloke who elevates an experienced list is wrong.

He was brought in to sort out who is an AFL footballer who can play and be apart of a finals side.

I’m keen for this trade/draft period. Big shake up is looming

[mad saint guy]

Geeze we've got a big list of players I wouldn't mind letting go.



Daniel McKenzie (Restricted Free Agent) - Cooked, retire
Hunter Clark - Two year extension
Jack Bytel - One year extension or trade for any pick under 40
Jack Peris - One year extension
Jade Gresham (Restricted Free Agent) - Unsure. Re-sign but not if he demands a big contract
Jimmy Webster (Unrestricted Free Agent) - Let him go. Still serviceable but he's not the future
Leo Connolly - Delist
Liam Stocker - Two year extension
Mason Wood - Two year extension
Nicholas Coffield - One year extension. Don't want to commit to anything long term in case these injuries persist
Oscar Adams - One year extension. Hasn't shown enough for a longer contract
Ryan Byrnes - One year extension or trade for any pick under 50. Not convinced
Tom Campbell - One year extension unless we trade in another readymade ruck. Need ruck insurance on the list
Tom Highmore - Delist
Zak Jones - One year extension only if he gets through the rest of the season unscathed

I'd also cut Allison loose. Shown nothing.

[mad saint guy]

Geeze we've got a big list of players I wouldn't mind letting go.



Daniel McKenzie (Restricted Free Agent) - Cooked, retire
Hunter Clark - Two year extension
Jack Bytel - One year extension or trade for any pick under 40
Jack Peris - One year extension
Jade Gresham (Restricted Free Agent) - Unsure. Re-sign but not if he demands a big contract
Jimmy Webster (Unrestricted Free Agent) - Let him go. Still serviceable but he's not the future
Leo Connolly - Delist
Liam Stocker - Two year extension
Mason Wood - Two year extension
Nicholas Coffield - One year extension. Don't want to commit to anything long term in case these injuries persist
Oscar Adams - One year extension. Hasn't shown enough for a longer contract
Ryan Byrnes - One year extension or trade for any pick under 50. Not convinced
Tom Campbell - One year extension unless we trade in another readymade ruck. Need ruck insurance on the list
Tom Highmore - Delist
Zak Jones - One year extension only if he gets through the rest of the season unscathed

I'd also cut Allison loose. Shown nothing.

[Vortex]

Geeze we've got a big list of players I wouldn't mind letting go.



Daniel McKenzie (Restricted Free Agent) - Cooked, retire
Hunter Clark - Two year extension
Jack Bytel - One year extension or trade for any pick under 40
Jack Peris - One year extension
Jade Gresham (Restricted Free Agent) - Unsure. Re-sign but not if he demands a big contract
Jimmy Webster (Unrestricted Free Agent) - Let him go. Still serviceable but he's not the future
Leo Connolly - Delist
Liam Stocker - Two year extension
Mason Wood - Two year extension
Nicholas Coffield - One year extension. Don't want to commit to anything long term in case these injuries persist
Oscar Adams - One year extension. Hasn't shown enough for a longer contract
Ryan Byrnes - One year extension or trade for any pick under 50. Not convinced
Tom Campbell - One year extension unless we trade in another readymade ruck. Need ruck insurance on the list
Tom Highmore - Delist
Zak Jones - One year extension only if he gets through the rest of the season unscathed

I'd also cut Allison loose. Shown nothing.

Agree with most of that except Tom Campbell, agree we need backup ruckman but Tom has no place on an AFL field so I’d be looking to bring in another ruck option that is on the fringe at another club on a one year deal and keep churning over fringe ruck options on one year deals until the longer term option comes along.

[shanegrambeau]

North Melbourne have to over pay players or offer longer than ideal contracts and player managers know that dealing with North Melbourne = dealing in a sellers market.

Their ‘re-build’ is a hole in the ground - three/four years later.

St Kilda can’t afford to be seen like that.

We need to make the finals..duh..



…and if we could get Brody Grundy?

[older saint]

Geeze we've got a big list of players I wouldn't mind letting go.



Daniel McKenzie (Restricted Free Agent) - Cooked, retire
Hunter Clark - Two year extension
Jack Bytel - One year extension or trade for any pick under 40
Jack Peris - One year extension
Jade Gresham (Restricted Free Agent) - Unsure. Re-sign but not if he demands a big contract
Jimmy Webster (Unrestricted Free Agent) - Let him go. Still serviceable but he's not the future
Leo Connolly - Delist
Liam Stocker - Two year extension
Mason Wood - Two year extension
Nicholas Coffield - One year extension. Don't want to commit to anything long term in case these injuries persist
Oscar Adams - One year extension. Hasn't shown enough for a longer contract
Ryan Byrnes - One year extension or trade for any pick under 50. Not convinced
Tom Campbell - One year extension unless we trade in another readymade ruck. Need ruck insurance on the list
Tom Highmore - Delist
Zak Jones - One year extension only if he gets through the rest of the season unscathed

I'd also cut Allison loose. Shown nothing.

Brynes has re-signed
Alison - perhaps rookie as finally showed a bit pre season before foot injury - perhaps see how he finishes at Sandy
Not sure i let Webster go unless there is an offer elsewhere. Become a good lockdown defender gone past Paton
Probably agree with the majority of what is there.
Bytel may be dependent of Ross goes again.
Perhaps Campbell at Sandy with spot left open ., Can teach Heath and if something happens and he isn't ready add mid season.