the difference between the blues and the saints.....

[joffaboy]

I agree with stinger.

Carlton trolls and fools are not welcome here. Carlton supporters have arrogantly had their pitiful self esteem propped up by a cheating short cut taking club for decades and then when it comes a crashing down, they get all antsy when the boot is on the other foot.

Carlton are scum and a rabble. They deserve everything they get an more.

Oh if anyone thinks I dont like any opposition supporter, thats not the case. jpbfc, queenc, mighty hawks, lynch beast, and west coast wizard all regularily post here without denigrating it into the usual Carlton trolling we get.

Opposition fans are welcome if they dont intentionally troll like these Carlton felchers.

[GrumpyOne]

Well said Sting & Joffa.

Trolling whinging ratbags need not apply.

[saint66au]

Hmmm I dunno guys..

I reckon TBB is on a par with the other oppo posters you named. THe only differnce? Hes Carlton...and he's frustrated with his teams inept and corrupt administration rather than laughing about like we are (and thats coool..happy to laugh along too!!0

If we tear someone apart for the crime of supporting Carlton, thats just lowering ourselves to the standard of Collingwoods board, who eject Carlton and Essendon supporters without reason.

DO you honestly expect Carlton fans to throw their hands up in the air and say "thats it, Im following St Kilda now Ive had a gutful of Carlton!"??
That would be pretty hypocritical for supporters of a Club whos motto is "Strength through Loyalty"

What bout those lil 4-5 year old kids, who proudly wear their teams jumpers? Gonna bail them up in the street and scream "hahahahah your team is flowering scum" at them??

The word "troll" is bandied around a lot in here. I'd be interested in your definition of it boys. Me? I reckon its someone, Saints fans included, who post inflammatory or offensive material designed to provoke a negative reaction. I dont think it should include "thou shalt not post anything that proves you supprot another club other than St Kilda" or "All Carlton supporters".

Yes I cant stand em either, I'm as rapt as any of you that they are having a crap era..but..not ALL their supporters are atrred with the same brush

A hypothetical situation. Weve just played the Blues at TD. We are all in the Victory Room having a beer. Ive brought my Carlton mate along (or maybe DSG her hubby) who's happy to pay the $5 to get in. We are all gathered discussing footy and my Carlton mate politely and rationally makes a point that might be a touch pro-Carlton.

My question to you guys is..would you turn to him and abuse him ? tell him to "p!ss off you scum"

Id hope not

[Bevan Shorluey]

Hmmm I dunno guys..

I reckon TBB is on a par with the other oppo posters you named. THe only differnce? Hes Carlton...and he's frustrated with his teams inept and corrupt administration rather than laughing about like we are (and thats coool..happy to laugh along too!!0

If we tear someone apart for the crime of supporting Carlton, thats just lowering ourselves to the standard of Collingwoods board, who eject Carlton and Essendon supporters without reason.

DO you honestly expect Carlton fans to throw their hands up in the air and say "thats it, Im following St Kilda now Ive had a gutful of Carlton!"??
That would be pretty hypocritical for supporters of a Club whos motto is "Strength through Loyalty"

What bout those lil 4-5 year old kids, who proudly wear their teams jumpers? Gonna bail them up in the street and scream "hahahahah your team is flowering scum" at them??

The word "troll" is bandied around a lot in here. I'd be interested in your definition of it boys. Me? I reckon its someone, Saints fans included, who post inflammatory or offensive material designed to provoke a negative reaction. I dont think it should include "thou shalt not post anything that proves you supprot another club other than St Kilda" or "All Carlton supporters".

Yes I cant stand em either, I'm as rapt as any of you that they are having a crap era..but..not ALL their supporters are atrred with the same brush

A hypothetical situation. Weve just played the Blues at TD. We are all in the Victory Room having a beer. Ive brought my Carlton mate along (or maybe DSG her hubby) who's happy to pay the $5 to get in. We are all gathered discussing footy and my Carlton mate politely and rationally makes a point that might be a touch pro-Carlton.

My question to you guys is..would you turn to him and abuse him ? tell him to "p!ss off you scum"

Id hope not

I reckon you'd be disappointed

[GrumpyOne]

A hypothetical situation. Weve just played the Blues at TD. We are all in the Victory Room having a beer. Ive brought my Carlton mate along (or maybe DSG her hubby) who's happy to pay the $5 to get in. We are all gathered discussing footy and my Carlton mate politely and rationally makes a point that might be a touch pro-Carlton.

My question to you guys is..would you turn to him and abuse him ? tell him to "p!ss off you scum"

Id hope not

Need to know his fighting weight before I make that decidion.

[JeffDunne]

I have heaps of mates that are Carlton supporters including two of my closest mates. Never do I miss an opportunity when discussing Carlton to remind them of their cheating past. For the most part they agree with me and one is even a friend of a Carlton board member.

It only seems to be mindless lemmings that frequent online forums that deny their cheating past. It's a symptom of them hinging their self esteem to the team they support. Facing that reality would kick the shiit out of any they have left.

They are trolls but really they should get our sympathy.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

What bout those lil 4-5 year old kids, who proudly wear their teams jumpers? Gonna bail them up in the street and scream "hahahahah your team is flowering scum" at them??

i remember a few weeks back a poster on here (cant remember who) made comment of yelling at a mum and her kids wearing another teams uniform from thier car basically giveing them sh*t cause they werent saints fans .
thats just not on guys/girls the kids just love their club, they dont care about the history of clubs the board corruption the drug use or whatever the team they support is supposed to be guilty of so why pick on them ? why make them resent showing their pride in their colours ? being a saint in WA isnt the easyest thing and as a kid you would sometimes wonder if its worth all the crap just to wear you colours proud i think we should encourage them not cut them down

[st.byron]

Easiest thing in the world to spout a bit of venom and call someone a troll because you feel like it. I think Baby Blues has been quite civil and articulate and I don't think he's trolling. Has asked some legitimate footy questions I reckon.
I hate Carlton for the years of arrogance that just keeps going. i.e Kernahan saying at their AGM, "....because we're Carlton and F**k the rest." I hope they continue to wallow and couldn't care less if they folded. But at the same time I have mates who have been Carlscum fans for as long as I've been a Saints fan, and incredibly they're reasonable decent blokes in all things apart from supporting Carlton. So if one of their reasonable fans wants to come on here and talk footy relative to the Saints, then it's fine by me.

[Brewer]

I came to Melbourne about 15 years ago from a soccer nation (I hated the game BTW).

My mate told me on day 1 that I was now a Saints supporter and so I have been since. The first time he took me to a match at Arctic Park I was absolutely blown away - not by the howling wind but by the fact that opposition supporters sat side by side in the stands, with colours proud and kids and women cheering on. I saw rival supporters having intelligent discussions or sledging each other with smiles on their faces.

No wire mesh separated opposing fans and I was genuinely amazed that football could be such a friendly and family-orientated experience.

I'm all for a bit of friendly sledging but let's not stoop to soccer levels eh? Insulting a man's club is like insulting his sister. She may be a sl*t, but it isn't your job to tell him.

[st.byron]

I came to Melbourne about 15 years ago from a soccer nation (I hated the game BTW).

My mate told me on day 1 that I was now a Saints supporter and so I have been since. The first time he took me to a match at Arctic Park I was absolutely blown away - not by the howling wind but by the fact that opposition supporters sat side by side in the stands, with colours proud and kids and women cheering on. I saw rival supporters having intelligent discussions or sledging each other with smiles on their faces.

No wire mesh separated opposing fans and I was genuinely amazed that football could be such a friendly and family-orientated experience.

I'm all for a bit of friendly sledging but let's not stoop to soccer levels eh? Insulting a man's club is like insulting his sister. She may be a sl*t, but it isn't your job to tell him.

Ah Brewer!! Your sentiments are noble, but you didn't grow up in the pre AFL era. In Melbourne when we just had the VFL, hatred of opposing teams such as the Filth and Carlscum was mandatory if you didn't support them. The long suffering of the Saints fans at the hands of these clubs runs deep. Some of their fans may be the kind of people you're happy to share a beer and a chat with, but hating and insulting their club is essential. It's the right and proper thing to do. Carlscum, the Filth and the Bummers are to me objects of ridicule and venom. They deserve no better and long may a suppurating and vile pox be upon them.

[JeffDunne]

If you ever start feeling sorry for Calrton scum, just think back these things :

- Carlton voting at a creditors meeting to send us to the wall
- Carlton attempting to set up a rival compeition to get rid of a few clubs including us
- John Elliott's "who would want to go to that rabble" when Hamill signed
- Carlton's president giving them a better deal at TD than us

There's plenty more and I haven't even touched on their cheating

If a Carlton supporter comes to this forum and starts discussing "clubs first to go", they deserve everything they get. I couldn't give a toss how articulate they are.

[st.byron]

Fair enough Jeff. Spoken in the true tradition of hating them with all your might. And having read your little reminders I hate them again, double. But nevertheless there are Carlton fans out there who grew up from day one barracking for them and would never give up on them, just like us and the Saints. I don't hate without exception all their fans, just the arrogant born to rule corrupt superiority that is their club.

[TheBabyBlues]

If you ever start feeling sorry for Calrton scum, just think back these things :

- Carlton voting at a creditors meeting to send us to the wall
- Carlton attempting to set up a rival compeition to get rid of a few clubs including us
- John Elliott's "who would want to go to that rabble" when Hamill signed
- Carlton's president giving them a better deal at TD than us

There's plenty more and I haven't even touched on their cheating

If a Carlton supporter comes to this forum and starts discussing "clubs first to go", they deserve everything they get. I couldn't give a toss how articulate they are.

OK a lot of that is in the past and i mean we're talking nearly 10 years ago. But so be it.

One point i'd like to raise is the last one.

- Carlton's president giving them a better deal at TD than us

Now IF this is true i think i have a fair indication as to why (our president was in charge of TD!) but i'd dispute the fact we have a better deal in comparison to you.

Now correct me if i'm wrong, but dont we need a bigger crowd (by at least 3000 i believe) at TD in order to break even? BTW, these figures i got from these very forums. So if that is true, how did we get the better deal?

FWIW, i think Collo screwed us over by moving us to the TD and if it wasn't for him doing the AFL dirty work then it never would've hapened IMO.

[JeffDunne]

TBB, there are a number of reasons why Carlton get a better deal at TD. Several clubs including St Kilda believe Carlton received preferential treatment. The AFL certainly do if you look at their annual distributions to clubs. Unless someone releases the contracts then talking about break even crowds is a pointless argument.

If you want evidence of the preferential treatment, look no further than the amounts paid to Carlton to relocate Princes Park games to the Dome when Collo was still president. Carlton made more from those games than the Dome tenants they were playing against did for their home games. Safe to say those payments got one or two clubs a little upset.

[Mr Magic]

What bout those lil 4-5 year old kids, who proudly wear their teams jumpers? Gonna bail them up in the street and scream "hahahahah your team is flowering scum" at them??

i remember a few weeks back a poster on here (cant remember who) made comment of yelling at a mum and her kids wearing another teams uniform from thier car basically giveing them sh*t cause they werent saints fans .
thats just not on guys/girls the kids just love their club, they dont care about the history of clubs the board corruption the drug use or whatever the team they support is supposed to be guilty of so why pick on them ? why make them resent showing their pride in their colours ? being a saint in WA isnt the easyest thing and as a kid you would sometimes wonder if its worth all the crap just to wear you colours proud i think we should encourage them not cut them down

StTrav that poster was me, but you have misremembered (is there such a word?) what I posted.

I posted I abused the mothers of these children for allowing their kids to wear Benny-boy's number on the back of their jumpers. I had no issue with them showing their passion for WCE, just the idolizing support for Benny-boy.

[TheBabyBlues]

TBB, there are a number of reasons why Carlton get a better deal at TD. Several clubs including St Kilda believe Carlton received preferential treatment. The AFL certainly do if you look at their annual distributions to clubs. Unless someone releases the contracts then talking about break even crowds is a pointless argument.

If you want evidence of the preferential treatment, look no further than the amounts paid to Carlton to relocate Princes Park games to the Dome when Collo was still president. Carlton made more from those games than the Dome tenants they were playing against did for their home games. Safe to say those payments got one or two clubs a little upset.

I agree that there was some initial incentives thrown to us by the AFL to assist collo get the move approved by the carlton faithful. But any advantages we get started and ended there IMO. It was simply collo and the AFL following their own personal agendas and not worrying about the long-term future of the club.

As for the break-even talk, we are all talking speculation, but the poster (sorry i cant remember who) seemed pretty clued in about it all. I believe he stated that you guys get more money from signage rights (as you've been around TD longer) and as a result make more money from sponsors that we simply cant make up.

Personally i like the ground as a sporting venue, but i think it is a bad move that it is considered our home ground. (Before someone says we have a split home ground with MCG...we already played 4 home games there a year before the move, now we get 5 - it was a clear move from PP/OO to TD)

All in all, i wouldn't be too quick to complain about us getting a better deal than you as given the few snippets of info i have received, i'd happily swap with you.

[JeffDunne]

TBB, unless you know the terms of the contract then it's a little pointless debating claims posted on a footy forum. I know that's a little hypocrtical given my earlier post and I probably shouldn't have included it in the list. My comments were based on comments I've heard from both St Kilda & Carlton people, and the later being when the Collo led admin were justifying the decision.

Anyhow, I'm still happy to hate you for all the other reasons even if Collo did shaft you in the deal. And TBH, I despise Collo more than any Carlton person - including Elliott. If he did screw you in the deal it's a bit of a win/win for me.