What players are we likely to get in the trade

[saintsRrising]

PA v Tigers tonight.

Without Dusty the Tigers would not have won.

Saints currently do not have any players who can dominate games.

Steele had a brilliant year, yes. But we currently lack that player who can turn games our way all by himself.

Max King could be such a beast in a few years time though,

[Ghost Like]

How about we trade Billings for Bontempeli.
And seeing Billings was drafted ahead of the Bont we get some steak knives as well.

...and a rocket to put up the recruiters who took Billings before Bontempelli.

I've been through posts prior to that draft and the only reference to the Bont is he was Dal's cousin. Billings was touted Top 3, the Bont wasn't. Whilst I'd love the Bont to be in Saints colours, let's face it, St Kilda's record of choosing or not choosing family links has been sh!thouse.

We did what was expected in that draft, the Doggies excelled.
We didn't do what was expected in Paddy's draft and Melbourne benefited.
We outsmarted ourselves in Judd's draft and West Coast pounced.
We chose Big Boy when many wanted Cyril. Both ended up Premiership players, at Hawthorn.

Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

Fair call Ghost Like

However, on top of Bontempelli's flagged talent at the time and his obvious physical attributes, it was not unexpected in my honest opinion and I'm sure others, that he would go thereabouts.

The Doggies knew something and were rapt to get him at no. 4. They have an absolute star, game winner, on-field leader and captain. Apologize for looking back but he was and is the type of player that would have accelerated our development over those leaner years.

In saying that, looking forward, we have made amends though with our 2017 picks in Clark and Coffield and King in 2018. Already both Clark and Coffield are on the cusp of being star players and on-field leaders which we badly need, like Steele and to a lesser extent Marshall. This quartet are really important in terms of our future prospects and hopefully King will join them in 2021 given his tremendous upside.

There would have been virtually no one picking the Bont over Billings at the time. The virtually no one being probably the Dogs recruiting team (Though as they picked after us even that is not known). But kudos to them.

However its is simply just daft to bitch and moan about our recruiters picking Billings.

The HS just after the 2013 Draft:

Will the Dogs' punt pay off?

No doubt Marcus Bontempelli is a risk at pick 4, but beefed up development resources, headed by the club's new stand-alone VFL team, will help unleash his potential.

Is the Blues' first pick a surprise?

In a way yes, because you would think they need another key forward. But Patrick Cripps is a general inside congestion and can help replace Chris Judd.

Have the Saints done the right thing?

Yes. List would have been in more trouble in two or three years without a bold injection of young talent. People will come to watch Jack Billings play and they will get a gun key forward next year.

The Guradian post-draft:
Western Bulldogs
Pick 4 – Marcus Bontempelli, Pick 42 - Matthew Fuller, Pick 60 - Mitch Honeychurch, Pick 84 – Brett Goodes (promoted rookie),

I think we can reasonably say that we’re at a point in the history of the draft where no kid taken in the Top 5 is an absolute stinker, but Bontempelli did raise a few eyebrows for going that early. He’s tall, versatile and according to a backhander from the AFL’s voicover man last night, “clearly needs to put on some weight”. Ouch. Sheehan called him “a big mover”. Take that as you will. Bontempelli actually took the bull by the horns and compared himself to Scott Pendlebury rather than waiting for the pundits to do so. I quite enjoyed that moment.

Emma Quayle at the time was well connected with club recuiters. She had the Bont at 4.
https://www.newcastleherald.com.au/stor ... rediction/

3 ST KILDA: JACK BILLINGS

(Oakleigh Chargers, 185cm, 76kg)

Clever, dynamic half-forward with a brilliant kick.

THE RATIONALE: At this point, the Saints just need to keep getting good players through the door. Billings is an extremely classy one, with a sharp eye, excellent foot skills and an ability to set the agenda in a game. Should develop into a midfielder before too long.

THE COMPLICATION: The Saints have done plenty of work on Matthew Scharenberg, with James Aish another who has been considered.

Jack Billings

4 WESTERN BULLDOGS: MARCUS BONTEMPELLI

(Northern Knights, 194cm, 84kg)

A tall, running half-back who could develop into a super-sized midfielder.

THE RATIONALE: Tall midfielders are all the rage, these days. Bontempelli has shown he can play off back, on a wing and in the forward line. By the end of the season he was doing it in the centre square. He has a big body, excellent vision in traffic and a diligent nature.

THE COMPLICATION: Jack Billings would be hard to pass up, if available. James Aish and Matthew Scharenberg could also be considered.

Spot on & thank you. All those bemoaning we took a Paddy risk with JB when the Bont was never a factor need to rip off their hindsight mirror. JB will work out OK, a slow burn but a good, consistent burn for us.

[Freebird]

emma quayle was also a big fan of Hickey and two meter peter in their draft years and they turned out to be duds

[Wayne42]

emma quayle was also a big fan of Hickey and two meter peter in their draft years and they turned out to be duds

It sometimes seems like there's still a bit of guess work involved in predicting how U18 players are going to adjust to the AFL.

A lot do but some don't.

[Ghost Like]

emma quayle was also a big fan of Hickey and two meter peter in their draft years and they turned out to be duds

OMG, did some Top 10s in the history of the National Draft not work out as expected? If we look at value for pick worth, I think we haven't lost with JB. Quayle got that right as did every other punter, including those on here.

I know this because no one has ever posted the link to their belief that the Bont should be selected in front of Billings prior to the draft. Unlike debates about McCartin v Petracca, Ball v Judd, McEvoy v Rioli.

[SaintDippa]

Interesting that the write up on Billings calls him a gun key forward. I'd prefer him to Lonie in that role. Permanent front 3 with king and membrey.

[SaintDippa]

Interesting that the write up on Billings calls him a gun key forward. I'd prefer him to Lonie in that role. Permanent front 3 with king and membrey.

[Freebird]

emma quayle was also a big fan of Hickey and two meter peter in their draft years and they turned out to be duds

OMG, did some Top 10s in the history of the National Draft not work out as expected? If we look at value for pick worth, I think we haven't lost with JB. Quayle got that right as did every other punter, including those on here.

I know this because no one has ever posted the link to their belief that the Bont should be selected in front of Billings prior to the draft. Unlike debates about McCartin v Petracca, Ball v Judd, McEvoy v Rioli.

Agree, was just pointing out that emma q had her hits and misses. I'm hoping we retain billings as he has the talent to be part of successful team

[samoht]

I think you'll find John Peake preceded Trout.

thanks, scoop.
.. then Peake was to blame.
It's the same result, nonetheless .... poor recruiting is the common theme over the last 10 or so years, compared to the successful team who've managed to sustain their success.

[BackFromUSA]

emma quayle was also a big fan of Hickey and two meter peter in their draft years and they turned out to be duds

OMG, did some Top 10s in the history of the National Draft not work out as expected? If we look at value for pick worth, I think we haven't lost with JB. Quayle got that right as did every other punter, including those on here.

I know this because no one has ever posted the link to their belief that the Bont should be selected in front of Billings prior to the draft. Unlike debates about McCartin v Petracca, Ball v Judd, McEvoy v Rioli.

Actually I was pumping for Bont pre draft and copped a bucket load of criticism because one of the reasons I wanted him was he was Dal’s cousin but more importantly because he was a big bodied midfielder who could play back or forward.

On draft night I posted that Billings was too small - he was the shortest of the top 10 in that photo.

Jack is a great player but not what we needed at that time.

And as I keep telling people - if we have enough quality midfielders forcing us to play Billings and Gresham forward, THEN we are in our Premiership window.

[SaintPav]

I think you'll find John Peake preceded Trout.

thanks, scoop.
.. then Peake was to blame.
It's the same result, nonetheless .... poor recruiting is the common theme over the last 10 or so years, compared to the successful team who've managed to sustain their success.

It's a combination of elements.

Can't just blame Richo.

I'd start with those that hired him and others.

Similar to how Lethlean, Bassett and a few others are leading the way now.

[SaintPav]

emma quayle was also a big fan of Hickey and two meter peter in their draft years and they turned out to be duds

OMG, did some Top 10s in the history of the National Draft not work out as expected? If we look at value for pick worth, I think we haven't lost with JB. Quayle got that right as did every other punter, including those on here.

I know this because no one has ever posted the link to their belief that the Bont should be selected in front of Billings prior to the draft. Unlike debates about McCartin v Petracca, Ball v Judd, McEvoy v Rioli.

Actually I was pumping for Bont pre draft and copped a bucket load of criticism because one of the reasons I wanted him was he was Dal’s cousin but more importantly because he was a big bodied midfielder who could play back or forward.

On draft night I posted that Billings was too small - he was the shortest of the top 10 in that photo.

Jack is a great player but not what we needed at that time.

And as I keep telling people - if we have enough quality midfielders forcing us to play Billings and Gresham forward, THEN we are in our Premiership window.

Under this scenario do you see Billings and Gresh having any midfield time at all?

Billings seems to go missing for large chunks of the game or gets caught on the wrong wing.

Personally, I think he is not being used properly. I'd put him back to half forward where he can be extremely damaging and is capable of kicking bags of goals. They could even try him at half back in place of Clark who could be moved forward.

[BackFromUSA]

emma quayle was also a big fan of Hickey and two meter peter in their draft years and they turned out to be duds

OMG, did some Top 10s in the history of the National Draft not work out as expected? If we look at value for pick worth, I think we haven't lost with JB. Quayle got that right as did every other punter, including those on here.

I know this because no one has ever posted the link to their belief that the Bont should be selected in front of Billings prior to the draft. Unlike debates about McCartin v Petracca, Ball v Judd, McEvoy v Rioli.

Actually I was pumping for Bont pre draft and copped a bucket load of criticism because one of the reasons I wanted him was he was Dal’s cousin but more importantly because he was a big bodied midfielder who could play back or forward.

On draft night I posted that Billings was too small - he was the shortest of the top 10 in that photo.

Jack is a great player but not what we needed at that time.

And as I keep telling people - if we have enough quality midfielders forcing us to play Billings and Gresham forward, THEN we are in our Premiership window.

Under this scenario do you see Billings and Gresh having any midfield time at all?

Billings seems to go missing for large chunks of the game or gets caught on the wrong wing.

Personally, I think he is not being used properly. I'd put him back to half forward where he can be extremely damaging and is capable of kicking bags of goals. They could even try him at half back in place of Clark who could be moved forward.

60% forward
20% midfield
20% bench

[cwrcyn]

The first round of the draft is littered with failures. We're not the only ones to suffer from selections that didn't work out.

[Saintmike65]

I'd like us to pick up a player with a bit of X factor that can play forward/ mid role...either Jack Higgins or young Narkle from Geelong would be a good fit, also in the age sweet spot.
A forward/ ruck is also needed, prefer someone a bit younger than McKernan but they don't grow on trees, someone that's effective forward & give Ryder or Marshall (depending on which one is playing) a chop out in the ruck.
We will need to trade at least a couple out, as it seems like we've got a few overpaid fringe players a la Webster & Roberton.
I know a lot on this forum will disagree but De Goey would be great for us, improving us both forward and midfield, these sort of players are as scarce as hen's teeth, Dusty and Dangerfield to name a couple, and look at their impact!

[ace]

JB will work out OK, a slow burn but a good, consistent burn for us.

I want a bit better than OK for a pick 3 when you could have chosen Bontempelli or Cripps.

[Teflon]

JB will work out OK, a slow burn but a good, consistent burn for us.

I want a bit better than OK for a pick 3 when you could have chosen Bontempelli or Cripps.

Yup
The attempts at justifying his output are hilarious
Guy has not hit the expected heights a top 3 pick would be expected to hit
If we got him at 15-20 you might think ok
Let’s be real Hunter Clarke is a much better prospect and he’s still developing

[ace]

JB will work out OK, a slow burn but a good, consistent burn for us.

I want a bit better than OK for a pick 3 when you could have chosen Bontempelli or Cripps.

Dustin Martin was a number 3 draft pick.
Who would you take Martin or JB.

[Ghost Like]

Really? Are we going through this? If you can send the links where you wanted the Bont or Cripps before Billings then I'll bow to an excellent piece of talent spotting. If not I'll acknowledge a person's expertise in hindsight.

But let's continue to play this game, how far back would you like to go in relation to who we should have picked?

Was it McEvoy instead of Rioli?
Was it Armitage instead of Riewoldt?
Was it Ball instead of Judd?

Perhaps we should compare #1 draft picks or #2 draft picks - Hodge has Roo, Goddard & McCartin covered. Is there a #2 that has Kosi covered, very likely.

We have to take the good with the bad in drafting, Clark & Coffield are the good, McCartin & Goddard the bad. JB is somewhere in the middle and likely to improve as the team around him does.

What makes me laugh is that we could trade Billings for a pick or a player and Billings, like Ball, like Hutchings, like McEvoy could become a Premiership player. No one knows how careers will finish.

If you asked someone at the end of 2008 which Riewoldt would have 3 premiership medals who would have selected Jack? Dangerfield doesn't have one but Castagna and Prestia have 3.

[Joffa Burns]

Cant believe people bitch about Billings because he’s not Bont.

It’s not like he’s a bust @ #3.

He’s a good AFL player who’ll play 250 games and if we are a force late in his career could be a twitch Edwards style gun.

Bitch about our known stupidity like taking McCartin for sure, but Billings drafting is a win for us.

If Ben is better than Max over 10 years we’ll be bemoaning taking the dud brother.

Some terrible drafting has been turned around since 2017 with Clark, Coffield, Paton, Battle, King all looking 200 game players.

[vacuous space]

Cant believe people bitch about Billings because he’s not Bont.

Supposedly, there were recruiters at GWS who wanted to take Bont and Kelly. That would have left Boyd to us, which might have prevented us taking McCartin - but maybe not. Either way isn't great. In any case, if we didn't take Petracca on account of some bogus psych test and we didn't need McCartin, maybe we end up with Brayshaw. All of this is a long way of saying it could be worse.

I also wonder if you flip Billings and Bont whether they naturally develop into the players they are today. Richo was so reluctant to play Billings as anything but a forward in his early days, despite erratic form and worse goalkicking. He would mention Toby Greene at press conferences as an example of what he thought Billings could turn into. I don't think many of us were hoping for a Toby Greene when Billings name was read out at pick 3. I can definitely imagine a scenario where Richo decides Bont is going to be a strong-bodied half forward and Bevo develops Billings into the mid we all hoped he would be.

[SaintPav]

Cant believe people bitch about Billings because he’s not Bont.

Supposedly, there were recruiters at GWS who wanted to take Bont and Kelly. That would have left Boyd to us, which might have prevented us taking McCartin - but maybe not. Either way isn't great. In any case, if we didn't take Petracca on account of some bogus psych test and we didn't need McCartin, maybe we end up with Brayshaw. All of this is a long way of saying it could be worse.

I also wonder if you flip Billings and Bont whether they naturally develop into the players they are today. Richo was so reluctant to play Billings as anything but a forward in his early days, despite erratic form and worse goalkicking. He would mention Toby Greene at press conferences as an example of what he thought Billings could turn into. I don't think many of us were hoping for a Toby Greene when Billings name was read out at pick 3. I can definitely imagine a scenario where Richo decides Bont is going to be a strong-bodied half forward and Bevo develops Billings into the mid we all hoped he would be.

This is pure exaggeration to say the least.

From reports, Petracca acted like a flog in his interview and made it clear he did not want to travel to Seaford.

Billings going at pick 3 is just historical background now. He is the player he is and I don't think he would be any better under Bevo.

Ratten might need to start using him a bit differently. Perhaps back to HF, or even HB which would be a total experiment but a straight swap with Clark.

[Saintmike65]

A player like Narkle would be handy, right age, and has an upside..can play forward/ mid.
Need a strong-bodied tall defender, even if Carlisle stays, someone that can compete one on one with the big power forwards..a Mihocek, Ratagalea, Jack Payne.
A ruck forward as well, again Ratagalea would be handy!!

[vacuous space]

From reports, Petracca acted like a flog in his interview and made it clear he did not want to travel to Seaford.

I'd like to read these reports. The Age reported at the time and the Herald Sun reported more recently (behind a paywall) that psych evaluation factored into the pick. Perhaps it wasn't the decisive factor, but my point was that, under a scenario where we took Tom Boyd the previous year, we might not have taken Petracca the next year. I don't see how it matters whether it's because of psych evaluation or Petracca tanking an interview.

[Joffa Burns]

Cant believe people bitch about Billings because he’s not Bont.

Supposedly, there were recruiters at GWS who wanted to take Bont and Kelly. That would have left Boyd to us, which might have prevented us taking McCartin - but maybe not. Either way isn't great. In any case, if we didn't take Petracca on account of some bogus psych test and we didn't need McCartin, maybe we end up with Brayshaw. All of this is a long way of saying it could be worse.

I also wonder if you flip Billings and Bont whether they naturally develop into the players they are today. Richo was so reluctant to play Billings as anything but a forward in his early days, despite erratic form and worse goalkicking. He would mention Toby Greene at press conferences as an example of what he thought Billings could turn into. I don't think many of us were hoping for a Toby Greene when Billings name was read out at pick 3. I can definitely imagine a scenario where Richo decides Bont is going to be a strong-bodied half forward and Bevo develops Billings into the mid we all hoped he would be.

This is pure exaggeration to say the least.

From reports, Petracca acted like a flog in his interview and made it clear he did not want to travel to Seaford.

Billings going at pick 3 is just historical background now. He is the player he is and I don't think he would be any better under Bevo.

Ratten might need to start using him a bit differently. Perhaps back to HF, or even HB which would be a total experiment but a straight swap with Clark.

Billings looks his best at high half forward to me, has looked AA at times in this role.
Runs well both ways and hits the scoreboard.

Loading the midfield with more talent and using Billings permanent half forward (as opposed to Kent) as many others have written would put us in a premiership window.

A forward line of King, Marshall, Membrey, Gresham, Billings, Butler, Lonie is up there with any in the league.